What Men REALLY Want From Their Esthetician (They Won't Tell You) ft. Armando Gualtieri

Welcome To The Sugar Show

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Sugar Show, the podcast for beauty pros, ready to drop the wax stick, master body sugaring the smart way, and build a career that loves you back. Whether you're brand new or a seasoned sugar pro, there's something sweet for you in every episode. I'm the Sugar Mama. Let's get into it. I'm Shannon, your sugar mama. And this episode on our way to SugarCon is gonna be really fun, as always, with Armando, because we are not gonna just be bantering back and forth, which we always do. We're gonna try to condense this into under an hour, which we could talk all day and we will at the conferences that we're coming to. But I really want you to understand why Armando does what he does, who he is, and what to expect in the months coming up. So, Armando, welcome to the sugar show.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Thank you, Shannon. You know, I'm always happy to be here and I'm always happy to talk to you because as you said, we could talk for hours, but let's let's keep it, you know, let's keep it short and interesting for people, right?

Armando’s Path Into Aesthetics

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah. So I have specific questions to keep us on task. So those folks that are walking their dog or um cleaning up their treatment room, listening to this podcast can really get a lot of bang for their buck. So we're gonna get right down to it. Wonderful. So, okay, first question. We are going to help them understand who you are and fall in love with you as much as I do. Um, okay. Clearly, you are a male esthetician um in an industry that is overwhelmingly female. There's not many of you male aestheticians. So take me back to day one. What made you kind of walk into this field? We know from our last episode together that you were an actor and you have had a full life before you decided to come on to aesthetics. So if you want to listen to that part, um, you absolutely can. But what I really want to talk about is becoming that male aesthetician, did anyone try to talk you out of it? Was like what was it a big decision to say, yes, I want to be a male aesthetician, or did you even think about the male part? You're just Armando who wanted to do skin. You know, there's a difference, I think.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

I think there's a way that I approach things that when I want to do something or I get an idea in my head, I don't necessarily think about the adversarial things that might be stopping me from doing it. Even when I wanted to go into theater, you know, of course, theater's just a wildly, wildly difficult field. But when you're young, you're like fearless. You think nothing's gonna be in your way. And I carry that through a lot of my life, even though I suffer from chronic anxiety. Um, there's a part of me that also can just move forward and be like, let me do this thing that I want to do. So if we're gonna go way back to the beginning of my story, I was in the theater, but I was also an actor, singer, dancer, and I was doing massage as a way to support myself. So I was in the spa industry already, and I was working in high-end spas, eventually went out on my own. But that's how I got introduced to aesthetics as a field. And I got very interested in it, but I didn't think about doing it professionally until um just before the major wave of the pandemic. So in about 2019, um I decided to study sugaring specifically. Um, I'd learned about sugaring many, many, many years earlier. Uh, I started getting sugared myself. Um, and I got very interested in that. And I thought, oh, well, maybe this is the additional spa skill I can add to my massage work and work, you know, go to work for somebody who has a spa, um, get out of my private work doing massage and add this other thing. Because at that time, going back 15 years, I didn't even conceive of the fact of having my own business. But in 2019, I went to work for someone, I had gotten my license, began sugaring, was working for quite some time, and then we had lockdown. And during the lockdown, I spent all this time online building my business, reaching out to people, making the business known so that when the by the time we were able to see people again live, the business was established, people started to come. And that's when I realized, oh, I can this this is the business.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah. Yeah. So at what point did male clients, have male clients always been kind of your majority clientele? Or at what point did they just stop being part of your business and become the whole thing? You know, was there ever a point in time where women were coming to your practice as the sugar daddy? Or is it has it always been just men?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

It my target audience has always been men. And I'll tell you why. Because I want my business to be gender inclusive, especially because there's so much gender diversity now and different gender identifications. But back when I first started thinking about doing this 15 years ago, we weren't, uh we didn't have this spectrum of gender identity that was so commonly known, right? So now it's becoming much more part of the consciousness. So, you know, let's clarify for people that we're using male to identify the anatomical parts, right? Male, assigned male at birth or male identified. Um, so my target audience has always been people with, you know what. Um I don't want to say it because if we put it on Instagram, they're not gonna let us say it. Eggplant. Eggplant. Um but I think we can say it because we're on the sugar show, so we can always bleep this out when we when we put it on Instagram. Anyway, target audience has always target audience has always been men, uh people with penises, right? So men. Uh, and because that's my community. Uh the gay male community is my community. And there's nowhere for men to go and get their intimate parts sugared. And when I say nowhere, that's hyperbole. I mean there's very few places. Um, there are waxers who do it. I know that you do it as a professional, and you've been doing this much longer than me. Um, but it's much harder for a man to walk into a place and be like, hey, I want to do my crack balls and penis. Right. And I found that that was the audience I wanted to pursue because that's what I want to get done. And I want to be able to go somewhere and do that. So for me, it was like if I want to do it, other people definitely want to.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Yeah. Okay, so this is making me think. What percentage do you think of your practice is gay versus straight?

SPEAKER_00 7:06

That's an interesting question because since we've been open and since we've been publicly advertising, right, through various uh, you know, advertising platforms, we get a lot more heterosexual guys. Um, so there are a lot of straight guys that come. I would say that maybe as much as 15, no, 10%. Okay. Which isn't a lot, but you would think that with my business it would be 100% gay, but uh maybe 10, 10% straight, and then another like 10 to 15% that are, you know, buy or poly or you know, and you're not you're not asking, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:47

But you can no, I yeah, we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

You find out in conversations with people, but sure. Yeah, you wind up sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

So interestingly you wind up chatting all of my Brazilian clients are straight that I know of.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

But here's an interesting thing though, too, because you do your Brazilian. We talked about this, and this is part of the online course that we're going to be offering, which we'll talk about later, of course. You do when you do male Brazilians, the men you work on come in for full Brazilians. Yes. They remove everything. Yes. Bush, balls, taint, everything, crack, cheeks.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

I had no idea there was a different way to do it until you and I started having this conversation over dinner in New York.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

That's right. That's right. And you were like shocked. You said, wait, what? When your men come in, they don't remove everything. I said, no, because a full Brazilian is men. I mean, there's a a wide variety, of course, of uh of grooming styles that men engage in. But men like their hair in the gay community. It's part of a sexual identity in some ways, right? So either you're removing it, I do have plenty of gay men who are like, well, I can't stand my hair, but men who have hair, they largely want to keep it, they just want it to look neater and and and you want you want to access. Like landscaping.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Fair enough. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

You know, um, you know, I I anyway, I shouldn't tell this story because it's off color. But anyway, um, I've been trying to get my barber to come.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

And I want to, I want to talk about this because this was really important when you and I first started to collaborate. Is I think that the the there's a lot of women that sugar, the majority of our industry is women. Yes, and many women have no idea that their male client might have a preference on what parts are taken off.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Just assume a Brazilian, maybe they say, Hey, do you want everything gone? The guy doesn't know any different. So he says, sure. And I didn't know that at the time that a lot of men like everything gone, but keep the bush on the top, like full bush. Yeah. I had no idea. And so I asked the of course, I you and I talk about this. I go in, and my next male client, I'm like, so I've been taking everything off this whole time. Did you want to keep the bush? And he looked at me like I was crazy. He's like, why would I do that? Right? Because he's heterosexual. And well, not because of that, just he that's what he likes, and that's what I've always done.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

There's a, there's a it's it's interesting because heterosexual guys aren't necessarily talking to each other about how they're grooming. The gay community, I think, has more conversations about this stuff. So I think in the heterosexual community, um men don't talk as freely and openly about their grooming habits as men in the gay community do. Um there's also, and I hate to bring this up, but there's also the influence of pornography. And I believe that in straight pornography, quite often both parties are completely shaved or groomed or or have no hair at all. And everything is gone. Like you said, the bush, uh, everything. And so that's the identification, right? And if you're if your wife or your girlfriend or your lover is female and she's completely given herself a full Brazilian, um, then you're maybe gonna think I should do that too. Whereas in the gay community, there's this broader range of grooming styles, and so my service menu is giving you those options. And we talk about it very specifically before we start, because uh my, you know, to reveal something personal about myself, my thing is I go to go in and I do what we call crack and sack, which is just the anus and the perianal area, the taint and the scrotum and the penis shaft. Whereas the bush, maybe I trim it and groom it a little bit to make it neater. Um, but you're just creating it's aesthetically pleasing, you know, and it's still masculine.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

You're keeping your hair, it's still adult because there's a thing that gets said to me sometimes from people, they're like, I don't want to look like a baby doll down there, or I don't want to look like a child down there.

What Male Clients Actually Ask For

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah. So I think the that was one of the biggest eye-openers for me. And what I love about again, the course we're gonna talk about in just a moment, um, is we're really clear in this course what about what men actually want, because women just uh, and again, I'm assuming that there's a lot of women that just don't ask, they just they get a uh service on their men on their uh schedule and then they just sugar the Brazilian. They don't say, hey, which parts do you want? Because there's some that just want the anus. There's some that just want the tate in the anus, like who knows, right? Unless you ask. And so we're gonna cover that in the course. We cover that in the course.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, we do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Um, but let's get we're gonna talk about this for hours again and but let's get back to the reality. Let's let's stay on that reality of those men. Yeah. So let's make this a little bit more simple. Is what do male clients want from their esthetician that most estheticians have no idea that we're missing, especially women? Like I sugar you. What do men want us to know that they may not ask or talk about? First of all, we're talking about, you know, sugaring which part to ask that of them. But what is it when they walk into, for example, the sugar daddy NYC, what do they get there when they walk in? What's their experience that they're going to get that that you want other estheticians to know about treating the male population?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

I I think there's a sense that men generally don't need to be taken care of. Right. And there's a sense that you go places and men are independent, they don't have emotional needs, they're not anxious, they're not worried about getting naked in front of a stranger who's gonna rip their hair out, right? So there's this funny thing of like a man needs to be strong, a man needs to be emotionless, a man can't have certain kinds of needs. And when they come through the door, you want them to feel pampered. You want them to feel that I specifically want them to feel that they know they're gonna be taken good care of, that I care about what they want. Um, and that I also have the expertise to take care of men specifically. So when you choose a place to go and have a service done, whether you're male or female, you're looking for somebody who offers what you want and who has the expertise to do it. And so we specialize in men. So when women call, I say, we'd be happy to see you, but you're gonna get better care here or here because we specialize in men. This is a men's spa. Yeah, and we don't want to exclude anybody, but men can't go anywhere, just anywhere, like we said earlier, and get their intimate parts done. So if we're scheduling other people, we're now taking time away from the men who need that service. So the men knowing that they can get what they want when they come through the door.

Training, Laws, And Serving All Men

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, you know, I think that's a really important topic as it relates to training. Because I truly believe that the majority of people that are out there sugaring have not been trained properly. They might have got certified and they've been making it up as they go along. And I was not able to sugar men until I was trained properly. Because you can sugar, I we can sugar anything, ears, noses, you know, beards, legs, arms, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Because we're sugar pros. But sugaring intimate areas, please do not guess or assume. Please get the right training so that you can understand how the anatomy is, works, what how how to handle situations. We don't want any guilt, we don't want any injuries, we don't want any embarrassing situations for you or the client. So we both, Armando and I implore you, audience, to make sure that you're trained properly on either anatomy and both anatomies, right? So even if you're someone, for example, Armando does not sugar a lot of women, but you know about the anatomy of women that you could actually do a service, but you're letting your potential clientele understand that is not your area of expertise. Yeah. Because that came up, Armando, when we were told, I don't know if it was a nationwide thing or just a California thing. So I'll speak for California, that we can't charge any different than we do, you know, men versus women. And, you know, we have to be able to offer to both. Like we cannot discriminate.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

And my staff was nervous that those that just are not willing to sugar the opposite sex, maybe their spouse doesn't approve or whatnot. And, you know, I shared with them, I actually don't want you sugaring the opposite sex if you haven't been properly trained. And that was the answer we would give at the front desk, which was listen, you can come in, we can sugar you. However, these particular staff members have not been trained properly. And that's a really important service to be trained properly, which is why you started the journey on this class.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yes. Um, and with regard to the education component and on the class and the course that you and I are going to offer through Love to Sugar, um the fact that I have experience sugaring male parts and not as much experience sugaring vulvas. Let's say, you know, I can sugar penis and balls. Sugaring vulvas is not my area of expertise. But because we have a lot of trans men, that's men who are identified female at birth because of their genitals. So trans men come in, they have a vulva, right? This is a um person that is uh uh male, they walk through the door, they're a men, and they take their clothes off, and they have what are commonly identified as female genitalia. That those parts, learning to sugar those parts, is now part of my responsibility because we want to serve all men. Um and so uh with the California laws that you were talking about, the idea that you will have to sugar everybody is uh anxiety-provoking because you need to get the training to do it well. So when trans men come to me, um, I have enough skill, expertise, and a little bit of experience with trans men to know how to sugar the parts. Um but more training is gonna be better for the service, but then more experience. So part of your learning experience is getting the training and then doing it, because through doing it is how you really improve. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Um, so you know, there's that hesitation for women, let's just say, around male intimate work. What do you say to the aesthetician who wants to learn how to sugar men, but just is nervous to go there? You know, because I think a lot of women understand that, you know, they're you're saying no to 50% of the population, right? You're saying no to a loyal client base, because they are loyal as the day is long. Um, what do you say to those men and women? Because some men are nervous to trigger other men, I get it, or even other women. Uh, what would you say? Like what kind of love and guidance can you give someone who's really nervous to learn?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

I think you have to step in and remind yourself of your skill when you go in to learn anything, right? You've already got the technique and training to sugar, right? Maybe you've been sugaring for only two years, but you've been doing it for two years. And maybe you're a female aesthetician and you've only been working on vulvas for two years doing intimate sugaring, but you know that there's delicacy and sensitivity in handling the parts of the person that you're working on. I think the scary part about learning to sugar men is, well, if you're a female aesthetician, learning to sugar men, is learning to handle the anatomy. Yes. Um, and that's where my expertise comes in, and the course that we're teaching is gonna help. But if you're going anywhere else to learn this, that's the same problem. You've got to learn how to touch and handle the anatomy in a way that you're comfortable with, is not hurtful to the client or is not causing harm or pain to the client, and is also professional and doesn't send any mixed signals. Um, well, we can talk about the specifics of that stuff later, but that's the thing is walking into training with the confidence that you know how to touch someone already, it's just learning to touch these specific areas, these specific parts.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Yeah.

Helping Nervous Pros Gain Confidence

SPEAKER_01 21:57

I want to talk numbers for a minute, and I want To understand without getting super specific, what people have really specialized, like you've taken a niche and specialized it and drilled it down even tighter. You sugar men. Yeah. Right. So can you give us a sense of what opportunity that choice was for you financially and how it's paid off for you to really focus on just a certain gender for lack of a better term.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, for lack of a better term. Yeah. Right. Um, let me think about this for a minute, because I think the thing about what I do is been that the a hundred percent of the income has always come from that population. Um so I don't have a frame of reference for a difference because I wasn't doing anything else before. I launched into it to work on men, and that's what I do. However, the business has grown exponentially because of that. In the seven years, yeah. In the seven years that I've been doing it, there's been very rapid growth. Um, partly because the guys that work here with me are superb. Uh, and uh partly because we specialize so much in this area, and that specialization makes us better at it and also creates word of mouth. So the the growth of the business directly reflects the um the positive feedback we keep getting. Absolutely. And and I think also directly reflects the fact that we specialize in that.

Why Sugaring Beat Wax For Him

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Absolutely. And I would add to that on my side, that by adding men and feeling comfortable with men and sugaring men the right way, I no longer have to say no to 50% of the population. I no longer have to say, sorry, we don't do that because I know these clients are loyal. I there's these amazing humans, right? Not everyone is amazing that walks in your door. There are some not so great. So I want to, you know, we talk about that later. Um and and we definitely will talk about that because there are some not so great men and women out there. Um, but I think that that's something to really consider is don't say no, a lot of my clients have husbands and partners that would love to be, you know, have hair removal, but they just don't know where to go. And so I wish you lived closer to me, Armando, because I would send them to you and you can send them to me. But I don't if we were yeah, I know. Sugar mama and sugar daddy in the same city would be Yeah. Oh my gosh, can you imagine? Anyway, I digress. Okay, so then let me ask you Um, you could have built your practice completely on wax. A lot of people do. Sure. So this is a great question. Why did you choose sugar and specifically for male intimate parts?

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Um, I chose sugar over wax because I had been waxed when I was working at spas, because they're always encouraging you to use the services there, right? So I got waxed a couple of times and I did not like it. Um, I didn't like it because the experience of it felt very rough because even even with the best technicians, you know. Um, and that's not to disparage waxing at all, because a lot of people get waxed and they love it and it works for them. It doesn't work for me because I have very delicate skin and um waxing would leave me feeling a little raw. Um and so for years I went without, I just would trim and shave. I was literally taking a you know a safety razor to my scroto, which a lot of guys do. Um, and uh, you know, I almost never cut myself. I, you know, you find your method. But when I discovered sugaring, I it was like a light bulb went off. I was like, oh, this is the thing. Yeah. So the reason I chose sugaring is because I loved it for myself. And I felt like if you love something, you can sell it. Yeah. And it's not a it's not a selling point in a way for me. It's just this works really well. Does it work better than wax? It works better than wax for me. And therefore, I want to share it with you. So I found a way to share a thing that I'm very passionate about. And, you know, tangentially, the theater was something I had a strong passion for for decades. And uh I thought for a while when I was getting ready to change careers, I thought, how am I gonna find something that I'm equally passionate about? How am I gonna move into another field? I don't not I'm not gonna love anything as much as I love theater. Well, I found sugaring.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Mm-hmm. I have to admit, I did the same. Um, my story is very similar. However, I'm a wuss. I'm not necessarily I'm sensitive because I'm wussy. I'm not sensitive because I have sensitive skin. I mean, I'm I'm very fair, so I do have a little bit of sensitivity, like legit, but the rest is all in my brain. And when I first got sugared, I thought, oh, oh, that wasn't bad at all. Like if I can do it, anyone can do it, maybe I should learn this.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Because they like it would be nice to do something that wasn't hurting people. People that have been waxed and come to get sugared always, always, well, again, hyperbole with me. You're you're always gonna get hyperbole with me. Almost always say sugaring feels better.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Um, and so that's the other way that I sell it to people. Um, so when they come in, guys come in and they just want to do their butt cheeks, right? And they've got they're doing their back and their butt and their butt crack. And I'm like, why aren't you doing your scrotum? Oh, it might hurt. I said, No, you're you just have to breathe through it. It's gonna be great. What are you doing now? You're shaving, you're shaving every two days. That's terrible. Yes. Wax them, sugar them, sugar wax them. You will have smoothness for a month. And they, you know, their eyes light up, and then you have to talk about how they experience and work through the discomfort during the session. And I always say there are sensations, but they go away.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

So true. So true. So let's get down to, we've been teasing this course a little bit. Uh, let's talk about the importance, kind of how this came together, this collaboration. And I think it's really important for the audience to understand that there's so much for all of us to learn. And we as a tag team here want to make sure that you're learning the right way. And you're not just making it up as you go along and then throwing it on your service menu. It's really, really critical to understand anatomy, to understand, you know, the heart of the clients that you're working on and to understand exactly how to handle the skin, no matter who you are sugaring, no matter how they identify, you have to be skilled. And the only way to do that is to learn from people who do the job and can teach how to do that. Because I think there's a lot of educators out there, and no shade, but I see it all the time now. There's a lot of educators that can sugar, but cannot teach, but still offer classes. And what I'm very proud of is you and I originally had started talking about the differences in men and women and uh as aestheticians and also as clients. And what we really worked on with this course that's coming up is the methodology. And it really is an understanding of exactly what to understand, expect, do technique-wise. So talk about the course a little bit and what we're so proud of about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Well, I'm I'm super proud of it, but I also just want to tell people that are listening how excited I am that you and I work together on this because we met and it just became like this fusion. Like we've instantly bonded, we understood each other, we had we speak the same language. Um, and the idea of doing this together at first was like overwhelming to me. Um, but you really, you really kind of talked me into it because you knew I wanted to teach, but you were like, we can do this online training, and it's gonna be a specialization. We're gonna teach what you do well. So I'm excited about that. And so uh the the um I think I lost track of what the actual question was because I because I'm just so excited.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

We really learned, yeah, we really learned from each other along the way, you know, you didn't realize what I didn't know, and I didn't realize what I didn't know. And and we thought it comes together, right? Then we can answer the questions that everyone has, but maybe is not willing to ask, or doesn't have any idea. Uh, for example, where do you stop on a leg on a man? How far out do you go? Very easy with a woman, right? Yeah, where do you stop in the bush? How do you leave a bush and sugar the rest? And there's a different way that I had never seen before that you teach on, and we're not gonna give it up here, uh, but there is a different way that I sugar than the way you sugar men, and both are correct. And but I think that when we decided that people should see both.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

And there are a couple of specific techniques that I use specifically for sugaring male anatomy that you wouldn't use sugaring the vulva. You're sugaring the scrotum, sugaring the penis. There are directional things that seem. I remember when I when I shared the uh video footage of one of our first uh models, you were like, you're sugaring the wrong direction. And I was like, no, no, no, look closely at it. And you realized, wow, you blew my mind. Like you're actually sugaring the correct direction. It just appears to be different because of the angle of the way I use my fingers and hands, which we A can't describe here on the sugar show, and B, don't want to because you have to take the course.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

So there's also the question of holds, right? The way you hold the skin. We all, as sugarists, know there has to be tension and counter-tension, and we have to stretch. And but you know, you have a scrotum, and a scrotum is I sometimes say it's like a pastry dough, like you can stretch it pretty far. Um, and when you're looking at a man's scrotum, it will change shape and direction because of temperature, because of excitement, because of various things. And so when you have somebody on the table, all of that difference is what you're gonna learn in the course. And it's something that I know as a man going into it, but which I also had to experience as a sugarist working on men. Yes. To figure out how to work this out. And so that's the expertise I'm bringing to the course is I figured this out, and this is how this works.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yes. And it's really important for you all to understand that we as women and you as men don't understand what it feels like to be touched in a certain way, like a pull or a counter pull, right, is different for men and women. And the the way with which we hold is different for men and women. And what we experience laying on the table is different for men and women, and even just aesthetician to client. I think maybe I'm, you know, holding the scrotum the right way. And the men are like, oh God, that doesn't feel good at all, but they're not willing to say it, right? And you really address that in the course on um, you know, on even uh, you know, when they're sensitive, maybe embarrassing times for a man, what that actually means and feels like, and how we can respond as aestheticians. And so we really were mindful when we created this course on the methodology and the technique and the experience that the guest is having, which is so important.

Handling Arousal Without Shame

SPEAKER_00 34:38

It's really important because I recently saw a post on Instagram from a major waxing company that really interested me because it's the thing we address in the course. Now, they addressed it in like a like a carousel on Instagram very quickly, in a really cute way, and in a way that feels very non-threatening, which is the problem of uh you know, male arousal and how that can be really embarrassing for the guy because the number of reasons what, you know, even as a again, as a man, I know these things to be true. But when I was doing my research for the course and I did some actual, you know, in-depth, you know, looking at at the reasons for this, I was sort of struck in the face by the number of different things that can happen that can cause a man to have an erection. And everything from, without giving it away in between, everything from relaxation to anxiety. Yeah. And whatever happens in between. You can go in very anxious. Some men get anxious and they get an erection. Some men get super relaxed and they get an erection. And it's nothing to do with b bad behavior. But that's the fear, I think, for women going into the industry, because you know there's a there's a big history and still exists of men taking advantage of women, abusing, harassing, physically, mentally.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

And men, I would imagine. Like you get it. Absolutely, absolutely. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Men with men. Yeah, men with men. But men with women is more sort of prominent, more sort of out in the news. And so I think female aestheticians also feel a little more protective of themselves. Because women experience it more every day than men do.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Like on an everyday basis. You're walking down the street, somebody whistles at you, you're walking down the street, somebody says something to you, somebody might grab you on the subway or a bus. And these things don't happen as much to men. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Yeah. One of the things that I do want to talk about, because you mentioned kind of socials and what's put out there as it relates to arousal, is I'm glad that we you discuss um the the reasons, various reasons why someone might become aroused, because I've seen quite a few socials, and you and I have kind of thrown them back and forth to each other of estheticians that are mad at their client. And how dare you get aroused? And it breaks our hearts because these poor men, like there are some that deserve to be sought, right? But these poor men that really have no intention of being aroused. In fact, they're thinking of 16 other things besides like, please don't, please don't, please don't. You know, it's like um, you know, when you when you feel a fart coming on, you're like, please don't fart on my aesthetician, please don't fart on my aesthetician. Like, you know that anxiety as a woman, but you don't know the anxiety they have of arousal and they don't mean to offend you or to have the service stop. So it's our job as aestheticians to understand what's happening, what's appropriate and what's not.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

We don't go crazy on that in the course, but you do talk about No, because and I'll tell you why too, because sexual harassment, sexual assault are things that are very real problems that need to be addressed.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Um, and when you're working in an environment where there's nudity and touching and communic, and the communication has to be clear. And so I think each uh business itself, it's up to the business to discuss and even give an introductory course, an orientation where they talk about how to handle those things. But what we talk about in the course is physiologically, if you remove the if you remove bad intentions, right? Physiologically, arousal is not I should say specifically, physiologically, an erection is not a sign of sexual desire. And that's an important distinction. Of course it is when it is, but it's not always. I mean, uh just to tell a funny anecdote or an amusing anecdote to your to the listeners, like I had a straight client come in about five months ago, and um brand new client left. You know, I discuss mapping, I discuss mapping, I mean by what we're gonna do. Um talk about this the service. He'd been waxed and sure and sugared before, so I didn't have to explain it to him. Leave the room, come back, he's lying on the table, he's fully erect. And he said, I'm really sorry about this. And I said, Well, you know, it's totally normal, don't worry about it. He said, This is why I don't go to women. And I said, Explain that to me. He said, Because I don't think they understand that I'm a person that just gets erect when the wind blows. And I, you know, I said, I get it. I'm a man, I've been through that, you know, and don't worry about it. So, you know, we went on with the service, and it it was it was a good service. He was he was a great client and loyal to life. Loyal, loyal for life, and he just felt so relaxed that I was so at ease about it. Yeah, you know. I mean, there were parts of the service where it might be surprising he was still sporting an erection while I was sugaring him. And you think you're gonna lose that when you get sugared because it hurts. But he's like, no, it just this is just what happens to me. Yeah. And like I have clients who laugh instead of wince at the pain. Like I have a client literally who giggles. So people have different responses to different things.

Live Classes At MECA And SugarCon

SPEAKER_01 40:03

You create that safe place, and that's what the course is, and that's what let's let's segue into live the live courses that you're gonna be doing coming up. You're going, we're we're both going to be, I'm so excited, at the men's aesthetic conference in Arizona. You'll be on the panel. We're all we're also teaching a course. Um, tell me what is gonna happen in that room. Because I think sometimes people see, you know, male Brazilian class. They're not sure what they're walking into, they're not sure what they're gonna get. Is this, you know, is this gonna be a full Monty situation, you know, and and really what they're gonna get from you as a male aesthetician who understands how to do this. What is that class gonna be like at Mecca? And then SugarCon, you will be teaching live as well. And how that course is gonna go live for you, that class.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Yeah, the the difference with the well, first I'll talk about Mecca, and then I'll talk about the difference with sugaring with SugarCon. Um, Mecca, they are gonna get the full Monty. It's gonna be a uh Brazilian service. And while I'm performing the Brazilian service, you and I are both gonna talk about, we'll have a PowerPoint slide presentation about how adding this service to your business is a smart move for a male aesthetician because it helps you get that clientele that you're working on uh and expands your service menu. And if you're not, and if you're a male aesthetician who's doing facials and body treatments, but you don't also do hair removal, you're eliminating a whole portion of the service menu that could bring in a lot of steady money because that's regular business because people do that as maintenance. So they come in all the time.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

So I'm gonna be performing the male Brazilian and talking about technique, but we're also going to talk about the business of adding the male Brazilian specifically to your service menu and why it's a smart move.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah, which I'm so thrilled that you're gonna be leading that class because I think it's really important for people. I could have taught the class. I could have gone to Mecca and taught the class and done. 100%. And I've seen your right? I could have done that.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

I've seen you sugaring, I've seen you sugaring men and I've seen that, you know, the technique is great, but I think it's good for if we're talking about male parts, it's good to have a man talking about male parts, right? Yes, thank you. Just why that client came in and said, This is why I come to see men for a service. It's the same reason a lot of women prefer to go to a female gynecologist, right? They have your parts, they they understand a little more.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

It's a safe place, yeah. So I'm really, really glad that you'll be on that panel to be the voice and that you'll be in the class to be the voice uh for Mecca, which is really, really great. And shout out to the collaborator or the um the coordinators of Mecca because the fact that you all have, you know, your own conference where you can be together uh is really just it's really neat that they've put this together.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Yeah, I wish we had a little more time to talk about the Mecca conference itself. Um it's the men's aesthetics, it's a men's aesthetics conference. Men's aesthetics conference and associates, right? So and friends. Basically, it's men and friends. Um, and it's there you are. And uh there are a lot of people of different genders, genders who come and uh it's just it's unique, it's it's a unique thing of its kind, and so is SugarCon, uh, which is specifically for sugaring. Um but you know, I don't want to spend too much time um gassing up Mecca. I love the guys, I the the the team, I shouldn't say the guys, I should say the team. Yes. Um, because there are also women on that team. Um and it's important for everyone in a niche to have a place to go where they can discuss their niche.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And you can discuss that and I can discuss that, but they're gonna actually rather go to you.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Which I But you know what I'm totally fine with. But you know what's important? You being at this um Mecca class that we're teaching, you being part of that class is you've been doing this as a business a lot longer than me. And so you have more business insights. I mean, sure, I've got them. I've been doing it for seven years now. You are, and frankly, I've been in the spy industry for 30 years, but running my own business. You've been running your own business a lot longer than me. So those insights are gonna be invaluable.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Yes. And and I love that um people can really ask any question they want in this forum. It's only an hour, which I don't know how we're gonna get pack it all in an hour. My gosh, we can't even keep it in a podcast for an hour, but uh we are available at the booth always at whatever show we're at, or whatever. If I'm at NASA and Pro or SugarCon, like we're always available. Like ask, DM us, you know, ask uh and take the courses. So uh let's uh talk about SugarCon a little, just a little bit more because what Sarah has put together in Ohio is an incredible, like you said, let's get together and and talk about our niche all together. It's been an inc, it was an incredible opportunity last year. We I'm just gonna give a shout out to the to the program because the lineup is so smart. The booths are smart, and everyone that's there, it's really neat to go to a show where everyone already knows how to pull it out of the jar and we're not having to convince them you should come to sugar. Everyone already sugars. So there isn't that talk. Uh, sugarcon is really um, how do you take your sugar business and skills to the next level? So talk about that for a moment about what you'll be talking about at SugarCon.

What The Course Includes And Launch

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Yeah. So the difference between what we're doing at Mecca and what we're doing at SugarCon, and you know, keep in mind, SugarCon was the first of its kind and was a tremendous success last year. Um, and uh Sarah Herbst, the million-dollar sugarist who we we know and love, has done this, you know, incredible, incredible feat by putting it together. Um, so just kudos to her. But the difference between what we're doing at Mecca and what we're doing at SugarCon is that at Mecca, we are focusing on trying to explain, teach, share with male aestheticians who don't necessarily sugar, that they should be adding sugaring as the hair removal form into their business and specifically talking about the male Brazilian. At SugarCon, I'm gonna be teaching how to perform a male Brazilian. So the focus is more about the technique. Like you said, everyone at SugarCon already knows about sugaring, they know how to pull sugar out of the jar, they know how to handle it. Now, let's get better at handling the specific parts that you're gonna do when you do this service.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Yes, kicking it up a notch and taking your skills to the next level in the street. Oh, I love it. I love it. Um, okay, so let's kind of get this wrapped up because again, we could talk for hours. Um, the course.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

So proud of it.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Yeah. This audience.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

I'm so proud of you for it. It was it was it's how long have been working? We've been working on this for a year.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

For a year. And you know what it is, Shannon? When you said, let's do it, and I finally agreed. I told you, I think several months ago, I do say I do things a certain way. Uh, when I was doing theater off Broadway, when we would do benefit concert or anything like that, I was like, no, no, no, we're doing a Broadway show. Even we're doing a three-minute skit, it's a Broadway show. And I treated it with that level of finesse and uh focus on detail and all of that. So that's why shooting this series of uh it's like a series of short chapter videos within a large course um became producing a movie for me. It really was. Yeah, and it's a lot. It's a lot. We're still editing it. Um we have to do some pickup shots this weekend. Um and I'm very excited about it.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

I'm like, no, no, it's great. Put it up. And you just are and I'm like, nope. Perfectionist for near.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

And you know, maybe to a fault, you know. I I I push it a little too hard sometimes with myself. Um, but the course is really thrilling to me because we're gonna introduce people who don't know how to sugar men to doing that. We're also going to introduce people who do already perform this service to we're introducing them to improving their skills and showing them some tips and techniques that they that I do. I I have a special move when I hold the scrotum that you're gonna learn in this course that that blew your mind, right? It did. It totally did. You were like, what?

SPEAKER_01 48:52

I didn't think I could learn anything new, and I did.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

So I'm I'm excited to share that stuff. Um, we have a really extensive, not extensive, but we have a very detailed and clear male anatomy section. Uh, I commissioned an artist from New York uh to do the drawings and they look great. Um, my videographer is very experienced. He's doing a terrific job coming up with ideas, and so it looks really good. Um, you know, maybe I'm tuning our horn about this, but the important thing is what are you learning? What are you learning? There's good close-ups of doing the special techniques. Um, we have three different models. So you get an example of three different kinds of bodies that we're working on, which is something that harkens back to what you said earlier in this interview. The different skin parts and the different to the different types of skin that we handle, right? We're both very fair, but my skin is really delicate. And in the same way, men's genitals, I mean, everybody's genitals are wildly different from individual to individual, but you're surprised when you start working at how wildly different the skin texture is. And I'm not talking about shape and size, I'm talking about handling the parts themselves. Um, and that all gets addressed in this in this course. Um, it's going to be available soon, and people have to. We're launching it at Mecca. We're launching it at Mecca. Yes. And they have they have to take a basic certification course first through Love to Sugar, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Yeah. Yeah. If you're certified, you can obviously take the course, but we want to learn how to sugar the right way because so many people have not learned how to sugar the right way and they say the sugar, they sugar, and they can. I see that meet them at trade shows, bless their hearts. They got certified by someone who's not an educator that's really strong and they can't even take it out of the jar. And we really, really, really implore you to make sure that you sugar the right way, and then take this course so that you know you're you're building your skills rather than making it up as you go along, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Which is um which is and you're you're doing this the right way too, or I want to say the most effective way, the most cautious and sensitive way. Sure, you know. Sure. I'm I'm super excited about it.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Yeah. I am I'm Armando, I'm so proud of you because you have kept all of your skills inside of the Sugar Daddy NYC. And this is your chance this year. It's the year of the fire horse, Armando. And you are riding that horse, and you are teaching and speaking and doing what your gifts are and sharing them with others instead of just sharing them with your staff. And so that is really a blessing for all of us to be able to spend time with you and to really take in your expertise and really learn and in ways that we can grow and grow our businesses, grow our skills, grow our compassion. And this course really is that. And I, it was an honor to do this with you, um, both as professionals and as humans, because we've really grown to be really good friends as a result. So I'm grateful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Yeah, it's been an incredible journey. And I think, I think people are really gonna get a lot out of this course. Um, I'm excited to share it with people.

Final Advice And Road To SugarCon

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Yeah. Listen, audience, we are we we could talk for hours and hours and hours, and we will talk to you at booths and in and live classes, and and uh you will get to experience all of this more as the years, as this year and the years go by. Uh, but we're gonna wrap up this episode, or else we will continue for another two hours and probably tell them more dirty jokes or whatnot. But uh I will I will share with you all that that really it's about who you partner with in this industry. It is who you trust in this industry, from educators and and companies um to staff. Uh I invite you to, when you're in this industry, is to open your own mouth and ask your questions. And you have Armando at these booths and these live classes now. Open your mouth and ask the questions that you're not quite sure if you want to ask. You know, try sugaring things when you've been learnt trained the right way, because you might be pleasantly surprised that all of a sudden you're a male esthetician that has a male-only business in Poughkeepsie or Sheboygan, and you're killing it, and you had no idea that this is the thing that, you know, the universe told you you should be doing. I did never think that I would be the sugar mama when I graduated from college, you know, a few years ago. But I had no idea that this was going to be that thing that filled my cup. I had no idea. And so little did I know that I would be someone who was really um excited about sugaring men the right way and really providing a service that can make them feel safe. And so, Armando, I am so blessed to have spent, you know, this last year with you and the years to go on because it shows in your work, it shows in our friendship, and your clients are really grateful that you've taken that time too. So I'll get off my soapbox, but I just had to share some love with you because it really isn't just some guy I'm interviewing. You know, you're you're really something special.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Thank you. I appreciate that. And um, I'm I'm curious to see where this journey takes me because uh it's been seven years of constant change. And uh I frequently say to people, I can't stand change, it makes me anxious. But like the un the universe is like, well, oh really? Well, why is it? Laughing at you.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yeah, yeah. Oh, really? Here's some change. And here's a little more change, and here's a little sprinkle of change. How about that? Yes. So Armando, as kind of a last question to you, if anyone is nervous, doesn't know if they should add male sugaring, doesn't know, you know, if this is the right thing for them, what's some advice you can give to estheticians who are still kind of nervous and on the fence about it?

SPEAKER_00 55:06

I think um nervousness is a sign that you care. And if you carry that with you moving forward into your education, you'll recognize that the more you care, sometimes the more nervous you get. But you can counterbalance that by reminding yourself that you already have skill. You're walking through this industry with skills you already learned. You've been doing it two years, five years, ten years, fifteen years, whatever. Maybe at two years you don't feel as confident, but you know what? You should look back on where you came from to the point you're at and recognize your growth and recognize that you're considering taking a class because you want to improve. And that shows real confidence in yourself and it shows again how deeply you care about the work.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Yes. Confidence.

unknown 56:04

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

And I will add that if you take the class, it doesn't mean that you have to sugar men, it means you're educating yourself. If you take the course, it doesn't mean you all of a sudden are the sugar daddy of your state. You know, you don't have to continue, but you have to understand what men are going through. You have to understand why you wouldn't and say, you know what, I took this course and I realize that this is this is more than I am able to do. And any education is the right education when taught by professionals. Um, and and I really think that if you're someone that is a student of this care of this industry, you learn about all the things, whether or not you perform the service or not.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Yes. Yes. And uh just to add one thing too, if you're a business owner and you're not uh you don't perform as many services as you as you used to, say you're running the business, you're managing, taking this course fills you up with knowledge so you know what your technicians are doing and what the customer is experiencing.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Yes. Every spa director, every shop owner should take the course so they understand what's happening behind closed doors and make sure that their staff is sugaring the right way. Mike draw. Boom. Uh, Armando, as always, thank you so much for coming on the show with us. I think next time we need to talk about, because I think there's a lot of people who might not sugar intimate parts for men, but definitely we'll do backs, chests, beards. And I think that might be our very next topic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Yeah, that's something we should definitely address.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Oh, yes, because you have great insight for that. So we will do that next. Sugar Tribe, we adore you. Sugar mama and sugar daddy, we uh have loved spending time with you. And we look forward to seeing you. Please come up and say hi to us in the booth at a class. Wherever you see us, if you run into him on the streets of New York, please stop and say hello. And uh, and it's all about networking and being together. So cheers, and we look forward to seeing you in class, and especially we're on the road to SugarCon in August.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Great. Bye.